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TML biweekly    Sun May 22 21:00:02 EDT 1994    Volume 45 : Issue 6

Today's topics:

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 613  7707 21-May-1994 Caffine Achieve  It's not just a job...It's a Game! << F
 613  7708 21-May-1994 Steven Gott      UWP's << Aren't UWP's weird?  I mean de
 613  7709 21-May-1994 KenHagler@aol.c  another High Guard design << Another Hi
 613  7710 21-May-1994 David Johnson    TNE: Regency Services << Gentlesophonts
 614  7711 21-May-1994 David Johnson    TNE: Shall Not Perish: Rebellion-era Bo
 614  7712 21-May-1994 AMNUSS@delphi.c  Melbourne Times <<  I've enjoyed readin
 614  7715 21-May-1994 Eric Edward Moo  Re: Deep Space Jumps (not again!) << I 
 614  7716 21-May-1994 PSUAlum@aol.com  non-metallic guns << >I'd bet MacGyver 
 614  7713 21-May-1994 rancke@diku.dk   Sword Worlds << David Johnson writes:
 614  7714 21-May-1994 rancke@diku.dk   Aslan ihatei incursions << Roger Sanger

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bundle: 613
Archive-Message-Number: 7707
Date: Sat, 21 May 94 17:42:53 PDT
From: Caffine Achiever! <fok@scf.usc.edu>
Subject: It's not just a job...It's a Game!

Fellow Sentients:

From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE: Regency Naval Forces

>Ed "Caffine Achiever" Fok(?) <fok@scf.usc.edu> writes:

>> of the five fleets)  I don't know if 'displaced' is such a good description
>> of what happened to fleets from conqured areas.  It seem unlikely that
>> these fleets would withdraw and let their keep be overrunned unless they've
>> taken significant losses.

>With this in mind I would expect *all* of the fleets to have survived in
>some form or another.  This would permit them to be reinforced and rebuilt
>by the New Era.  Recall that I mentioned the subesctor associations merely
>to indicate the Rebellion-era origins of the fleets.

Yes but these subsectors also provides a 'Home port' for these fleets.  This
is particularly important for crew with families and routine logistic support.
Not to mention that it's a great way for the region to benifite economically
from these ships.

>spread of Virus in the Extents.)  In any event, I would expect the Regency
>to have reclaimed any territory lost to the Vargr during the Rebelion era
>by TNE.

Should not be too diffcult with out the Zhodani actively supporting the
incursions.  Also the Aslan ihatei units ought to give them an interesting
surprise.

>> Considering the central location of the 73rd (Mora) and 23rd (Rhylanor)
>> Fleets, these would probably be the original core of the Patro.

>The relationship between the Rebellion-era Patrol, the Quarantine Service
>and the Regency Navy is one still to be discerned.  Wasn't the Patrol
>originally staffed by Aslan?  This is why I felt many of the *ihatei* have
>been incorporated into the Regency.  Does any TNE material mention the
>fate of the Patrol in TNE?

I vaguely recall reading the same referance.  But considering the mission
of the Patrol as a centralized fast reaction force these two fleets will be
the idea core.

Over a period of 70 years I would imagine the incorporated ihatei units be
fairly evenly distributed throughout the Regency.  So between rebuilding the
reavaged fleets and setting up the Quarantine area the descendents of the
ihatei should be everywhere.

Also about five years ago at a Los Angeles Gaming convention I recall Loren
Wiseman mentioning the ideal way to deal with the ihatei is to trade land
grant for service.

>> However the Reft fleets
>> are probably gone.  Dulinor wouldn't let go of 188 perfectly good fighting
>> ships so nearby.

>The three Reft fleets on the spinward side of the Great Rift are clearly
>safe from any sort of claim by Dulinor.  Their challenge was the *ihatei*
>as well.

Ooops, I'll use my glasses next time I check the map.  :P

***:Regarding Regency Maps

Here's a list of the border hex from the MT Box set (c 1987)

On the South (Aslan/Rimward) side:

1541,1540,1539,1538,1437,1337,1436,1435,1434,1535,1634,1735,1834,1934,
1933,1932,2032,2132,2231,2331,2332,2333,2334,2335,2336,2436,2536,2537,
2637,2638,2739,2839,2940,3039,3040

Worlds bounded by these hex were suppose to be under control of the
Aslan ihatei.

Everytime I take a look at this I can only imagine that it's must've been
one heck of a fight.

At the North (Vargr/Coreward) side:

2201,2202,2303,2402,2503,2504,2505,2506,2507,2607,2708,2807,2907,2906,
3005,3004,3104,3203, (continues in the trailing direction into Gulf
subsector)

***UWP and alliegence code
I've been running non-'canned' GDW background for quite some time now
and don't have all of the old SM UWP data.  Perhaps Rodge Sanger
have those handy?

- -Ed Fok (a.k.a. Caffine Achiever)


------------------------------

Bundle: 613
Archive-Message-Number: 7708
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 15:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
Subject: UWP's


Aren't UWP's weird?  I mean describing a whole world with 7 digits is 
amazingly vauge.  Has anybody every worked on a more descriptive system?

Steven Gott

------------------------------

Bundle: 613
Archive-Message-Number: 7709
From: KenHagler@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 May 94 16:44:19 EDT
Subject: another High Guard design

Another High Guard ship:

      The _Berlin_ class Light Rider

BM-1 Berlin BM-K6068F3-C00100-00009-0 MCr10,780.7 10,000 tons
batteries bearing      A  Crew=440.
batteries        A  TL=12.
Low=220. Cargo=218. Fuel=800. EP=800. Agility=6. Marines=350.

Notes: Has a frozen watch, fuel scoops, and purification plant. This 
class normally operated in groups of four.

This is the original _Berlin_ class rider. 180 of these riders were 
built, and the class was originally meant to serve as part of the core of 
the NFN, along with the _Provence_ heavy riders. Riders of this class 
were named for cities on Earth.

The class saw extensive action during 5627. In the Old Islands War, it 
was found that the Amondiage _Sword_ class was almost perfect for 
fighting the _Berlin_. In addition, the weaknesses of the rider concept 
were dramatically displayed when half the NFN's riders were captured at 
the Third Battle of St. Genevieve because they couldn't retreat from the 
system. The disastrous showing of the riders during that war convinced 
the Admiralty to drop the rider concept, although riders would remain in 
service for several years yet.

During the Topas War, the _Berlin_ made just the opposite impression on 
the Serendip Belt when a Light Rider Squadron and a Cruiser Squadron tore 
up half the Belter Navy. The _Berlins_ of the Light Rider Squadron were 
captured, but the performance of the NFN ships so terrified the Belters 
that they later ran away rather than fight an Alliance force.

Following these wars, fourteen of the twenty _Berlins_ captured by the Belt 
were given to Topas to serve as the core of its Navy, and the other six 
were kept hidden by the Belt. In 5629, the NFN officially gave twenty of 
its _Berlins_ to the Alliance Navy.

In 5631, the NFN decided to give their remaining _Berlins_ a Series A 
refit. 60 riders received the refit before the Serendip War.

BM-1 Series A K6068H3-C00300-0000A-0 MCr10,755.6 10,000 tons
batteries bearing     A  Crew=440.
batteries       A  TL=12(14).

Notes: Has frozen watch, scoops, plant. The refit cost MCr347.6 per ship 
and took 9 weeks.

40 of the Series A riders, along with the 80 remaining original model 
_Berlins_, participated in the Second Battle of Neubayern, where the 
Missile-A bays of the refitted riders helped pulverize one of the Belter 
battleships. 73 of the riders were lost, however.

When the Imperials invaded, 20 Series A _Berlins_ were hidden in deep 
space. The rest of the class was scuttled (very visibly) in the Neubayern 
system to prevent capture by the Imperial Navy. When the Imperials were 
thrown out, the 20 _Berlins_ were reactivated to act as system defence 
boats for a few months and then were relegated to museums. They never saw 
action again.

                        Kenneth G. Hagler
 _________________________________________________________________
|            kenhagler@aol.com           |  My insurance company  |
|             (619) 251-0054             |    is Beretta U.S.A.   |
|   PGP 2.3 key available on request     |                        |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|   ...study of the military arts will make one who is naturally  |
|   clever more so and one who is born somewhat dull rather less  |
|   so.     --Daidoji Yuzan Shigesuke, _Budo Shoshinshu_          |
|_________________________________________________________________|


------------------------------

Bundle: 613
Archive-Message-Number: 7710
Date: Sat, 21 May 94 13:59:34 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE: Regency Services

Gentlesophonts:

PBJuzyk <PSUAlum@aol.com> writes:

> This is true but the RQS only maintains light assets (mostly inspection
> launches) for inspections while the Navy maintains a strong presence in
> these areas.  Naval ships are called upon to enforce the Quarantine
> procedures should firepower be required.
> 
> When Norris established
> the Quarantine (312-1130) the Patrol was combined with part of the
> Regency Interstellar Scout Service (Exploration and External Mapping
> branches) to form the Regency Quarantine Service (RQS).

Okay, so we have the Regency Navy (RN).  The Regency Army (RA) consists of the
traditional three force commands: Aerospace (COACC), Nautical, and Ground.
The Regency Quarantine Service (RQS) consists of assests originally gained from
the (mostly Aslan?) Domain Patrol and the DISS.  Is there still a scout
service in the Regency, an RISS?

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 614
Archive-Message-Number: 7711
Date: Sat, 21 May 94 12:10:02 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE: Shall Not Perish: Rebellion-era Borders

Gentlesophonts:

Now that we've seen the post-5FW era *Spinward Marches Campaign* borders and
allegiance data, let's compare the early Rebellion era information from
MegaTraveller.

Source: *MT Players' Manual* rulesbook
Published: c1987
Game date: c1116

This rulesbook contains a map of the Spinward Marches  inside the
front cover (8.5 x 11).  The borders show every world in Regina, Aramis,
Lanth, Rhylanor, Lunion, Mora, Glisten and Trin's Veil as within the Imperium.  
Imperial borders in Jewell, Vilis and Five Sisters are `consistent' with
previously published works.  The map shows the Border Worlds in Sword Worlds
subsector but adds two more members (Tyrfing 1324 and Sacnoth 1325) bringing
the total worlds up to twelve.  The two worlds in District 268, Mertactor 1537
and Mille Falcs 1637, are still shown as part of the Imperium.  There is
no UWP data in this book but a library data entry for the Spinward Marches
(P91) mentions the Border Worlds.

Three of the other MegaTraveller books, the *Referee's Manual*, the *Referee's
Companion* and the *Rebellion Sourcebook* do not have any Spinward Marches
border or allegiance data (except in Imperium-wide maps that are difficult
to read at that scale).

Source: *Imperial Encyclopedia* sourcebook
Published: c1987
Game date: c1118

The sourcebook includes UWP data for all worlds in the Spinward Marches.
This data shows alignment codes for the Border Worlds for the following
worlds in Sword Worlds subsector:

1324 Tyrfing (added since post-5FW era)
1325 Sacnoth (added since post-5FW era)
1424 Beater
1522 Dyrnwyn
1523 Durendal
1524 Hofud
1525 Sting
1526 Steel
1626 Iron
1627 Bronze
1628 Mithril

This data is consistent with the *MTPM* map and adds two more former
Sword Worlds to the Border Worlds.

The Imperial Client States in District 268 have been affected by the
invasion of the Aslan *ihatei*.  The following worlds are listed as
client states in *IE*:

1132 Bowman
1138 Tarsus
1232 Walston
1237 Collace
1238 Pavabid
1340 Motmos
1434 Tarkine
1532 Elixabeth
1631 Talchek
1632 Milagro

The new information in *IE* reflects the invasions of the Aslan *ihatei*
and the Vargr.  Thirty-nine worlds in District 268 and Glisten and Trin's
Veil subsectors have Aslan allegiance codes and 21 worlds in Regina and
Aramis have Vargr allegiance codes.  This information is not reflected
in the sector map that appears in the *Players' Manual*.  The worlds
overrun by the Aslan are:

District 268
1337 Judice (was Imperial client state in post-5FW era)
1435 Dallia (was Imperial client state in post-5FW era)
1436 Talos
1537 Mertactor (was Imperial world in post-5FW era)
1634 Pagaton
1635 Binges
1637 Mille Falcs (was Imperial world in post-5FW era)

Glisten subsector (were all Imperial worlds in post-5FW era)
1736 Melior         1737 Egypt          1739 Aster
1836 Callia         1932 Mithras        1934 Weiss
1935 Windsor        1937 Overnale       1938 New Rome
1939 Craw           2035 Aki            2036 Glisten (subsector capital)
2038 Trane          2132 Centry         2134 Caledonia
2137 Sorel          2138 Horosho        2140 Romar
2231 Marastan       2232 Crout          2233 Tirem
2234 Inthe          2236 Tsarina        2237 Wurzburg
2331 Bicornn        2334 Ffudn          2336 Bendor

Trin's Veil subsector (were all Imperial worlds in post-5FW era)
2536 Squanine
2739 Dodds
2839 Farquahar
2940 Thornastor
3039 Tenelphi (Yikes!  `My' homeworld!)

With these sorts of gains into the Spinward Marches you would expect the
the Aslan to have overrun Sindal, Pax Rulin, Tobia and Gazulin in the
Trojan Reach.

The Vargr made gains to coreward in Regina and Aramis as well:

Regina subsector (were all Imperial worlds in post-5FW era)
2201 Dentus
2202 Kinorb
2303 Yorbund
2402 Heya

Aramis subsector (were all Imperial worlds in post-5FW era)
2602 Corfu          2607 Focaline       2701 Lablon
2706 Heguz          2708 Violante       2905 Pavanne
2906 Carsten        3001 Jesedipere     3002 Yebab
3003 Nasemin        3004 Zykoca         3005 Aramanx
3008 Pysadi         3102 Rugbird        3103 Towers
3104 Feneteman      3202 Junidy

Again, one would expect similar sorts of Vargr inroads into Pretoria,
Lamas, Antra and Million in Deneb sector.

There are Imperium-wide maps in *IE* that show the progress of the Rebellion
during 1116-1120.  Again, these are difficult to read because of the scale
but the 1117 map show Aslan *ihatei* in Sindal, Tobia, Pax Rulin and
Gazulin and in Usher and Vestus in Reft sector.  The 1118 map shows Aslan
moving into District 268, Glisten and Trin's Veil.  By 1119 the Aslan have
been forced out of Vestus.  By 1120 they have been expelled from District
268, Glisten and Trin's Veil.  None of these Imperium-wide maps reflect any
Vargr gains into the Marches or Deneb.

The situation on the rimward front does coincide with Norris's plans for
dealing with the *ihatei*:
1. Contain their advance to within 5 pc of the border (not quite)
2. Negotiate a halt to the incursions (basically a delaying tactic)
3. Build up forces to counter the incursions
4. Expell the invaders
By 1120, the Domain seems to have seen some success here although one
might expect the *ihatei* settlers to have remained even if their
naval forces were expelled.  (That's the nature of *ihatei* invasions.)

Next, let's look at the later Rebellion era as depicted in *Travellers'
Digest* and the *MegaTraveller Journals*.

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 614
Archive-Message-Number: 7712
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 11:39:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: AMNUSS@delphi.com
Subject: Melbourne Times


 I've enjoyed reading the Earth Colonies posts.  I would like to 
 subscribe to Melbourne Times but the ad in Challenge 72 doesn't say
 how much a years subscription is.

 Alan

------------------------------

Bundle: 614
Archive-Message-Number: 7715
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 03:46:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Edward Moore <deathmaster+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Deep Space Jumps (not again!)

I seem to recall that in CT adventure 12 (Secret of the ancients) the
players had to jump into a "deep space" hex.  This could be taken as
"official" proof you can jump into "deep space"

        -Love, Kisses, and a Neutron Bomb
                -Eric the Finn

------------------------------

Bundle: 614
Archive-Message-Number: 7716
From: PSUAlum@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 May 94 02:05:26 EDT
Subject: non-metallic guns

>I'd bet MacGyver could build a simple Cannon-Locke or Matchlock out of
>Bamboo and twine. . .

So can James T. Kirk, especially when a lumbering lizard man (a.k.a. the
Gorn) was after him!





PBJuzyk                             | 'Most plans don't even survive
Reading, PA                         |  contact with Reality'
Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8) |   -Hammer Lanthrop, *Smash & Grab*


------------------------------

Bundle: 614
Archive-Message-Number: 7713
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Sword Worlds
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 15:43:52 +0100 (METDST)

David Johnson writes:
>>From Sunday night, Hans Rancke <rancke@diku.dk> writes:
> 
>>It seems I haven't explained my idea about the economic cycles well enough.
> 
>No, I get your point, I just don't see any `facts' that support these cycles.
>What is it about the technological disparities between worlds that suggests
>these cycles?  I understand that you're saying that without things cycling
>up and down there ought to be no disparities - every world would be TL 15.
>Why does this have to be the case?  While it's clear that technological
>knowledge ought to be equivalent throughout `known space' there is nothing
>to suggest that economic development is constant as well.  It might
>be that lower tech worlds just haven't `grown' to higher technological
>accomplishment yet - like on contemporary Earth.  Why the need to propose
>these mysterious `techno-economic cycles'?

I think we've lost track of the original question. As I recall it (correct
me if I'm wrong) you started out by asking how come Gram was the leader of
the Sword Worlds when Sacnoth was so much more powerful. I assumed that
you were talking about powerful in the naval sense (since a TL or two
dosen't mean nearly as much as the population size in the economic sense).
So I proposed two possible reasons why the Gram and Narsil fleets maybe
wasn't less powerful than the Sacnoth: One possibility was that Gram and
Narsil bought TL 12 ships. Another, postulating these economic cycles, was
that maybe they had been TL 12 themselves and still had a lot of TL 12
ships from back then. (Those two possibilities turned out to dovetail so
neatly that they subsequently got intermixed, but that's by the way). 
Since then I've tried to defend the notion that the economic cycles are
_possible_. I don't say that they definitely must be, that there are no
other possibilities. Just that they are perfectly possible. I don't try
to prove that they exist, only that they could exist. OK? Nor did I use
them to explain the disparity of different TLs. My argument in that 
direction was:

        1) TL 15 _knowledge_ is readily available to anyone in contact
           with Imperial society.
        2) That many worlds have lower than TL 15 _industry_, cannot
           therefor be explained by a lack of knowledge, but must be
           due to other reasons.
        3) The most likely limiting factors are economic.
        4) Economic cycles are well-known on Earth today.
        5) Granted, economic cycles does not cause TL swings on Earth
           today (as far as I know).
        6) However _if_ technology is limited by economy (as it is in   
           the Traveller universe), sufficiently large booms and recessions 
           _ought_ to be able to affect the TL of a world.

>>(Remember, I also assume that a world can 
>>maintain ships and equipment at least two levels above their own TL)
> 
>I'm not sure this is really relevant to our discussion 

It applies to the ability of Gram and Narsil to maintain a TL 12 fleet with
TL 11 and 10 economies.

>but I'm not sure
>I agree with this idea.  A TL 6 mechanic is going to have problems fixing
>the electronic-fuel-injection in my TL 8 car just as a TL 6 computeroid
>is going to have difficulties trying to replace the vacuum tubes in my PC.
>A TL 4 electrician won't have a clue how to fix the CRT on my TL 5 TV.

But my whole point is that they _will_ have much more than a clue. The
knowledge is there even if the industry isn't.

>Of course, you're going to say she can because her world was at TL 8 when
>she went to trade school two decades ago.  :-)

That too.

>If the 5FW counters `prove' that there are truly disparate TLs in the
>Sword Worlds doesn't that lend credence to the idea that disparate TLs
>are due to disparate techno-economic *development* rather than `cycles'?

No, it proves that the authors of a board game have different priorities
from the authors of a role-playing game.

>And won't that, in turn, generally call for Sacnoth to be the dominant
>world unless Gram is receiving outside help?

Not in terms of the economy according to _Trillion Credit Squadron_. The
GPP (Gross Planetary Product) of Gram is close to that of Sacnoth and that
of Narsil is a lot bigger.
 
>>IMO one should prefer
>>the one that corresponds most closely to GDWs version.
>
>I agree.  Someone *please* dig out those *5FW* counters!

There are 7 SW squadrons that must be TL 12 (jump3 capable), 9 that could
be TL 12, but propably are TL 11 (jump2 capable), and none that can be TL
10 (no jump1 squadrons). The troops are marked with TL: One brigade from
Gram is TL 11 and one from Joyeuse is TL 10. The rest are anonymous and
consists of four TL 10 corps and 2.5 TL 11 corps. No TL 12 corps at all.
The whole force is much less than the total available Sword World forces;
the attack on the Imperium appears to be a secondary effort. Most of 
their prime units must have gone against the Darrians. Any Gram TL 12
units could be there.
 
>>Actually, while I've no doubt that GDW's Sword Worlds owe their origin to
>>Piper, they actualy have a lot less in common with Piper's than one might
>>think. 
> 
>Really?  How so?

I had always assumed that GDW just took all the Sword World names they could
find in "Space Viking" and used the Tolkien names and the Norse Mythology
names (not even swords!) to fill out the subsector. But a short while ago I
checked, and it turns out that there are a whole bunch of Piper SWs that
has no Traveller SW counterpart. Most of the duplications are with really
famous swords like Excalibur, Joyeuse, and Durendal  -  the kind of names
anyone would dig up once the idea of 'Sword Class' names had ocurred to
them. So what the Traveller SWs owe to Piper is actually little more than
the concept of the sword names. The societies are different in a number of
ways too (Women accepted in 'male' roles for instance).

>>I believe, however, that the GDW SW ancestors did, like Piper's SW ancestors,
>>flee a lost civil war.
> 
>I just checked the *JTAS* Contact article again.  It merely describes the
>original Sword Worlds settlers as `Solomani exiles'.  There is no mention
>of *any* warfare.  The time is the c-400.  

You're right. I've mixed my own idea up with the official info. 'Exiles'
does imply some sort of pressure on them, though.

>I'm not sure when the Interstellar Wars occurred.

This was long after the Interstellar Wars. _Cats&Rats_ says that they left
Terra in -420. That they used 29 years to get to the Spinward Marches
implies a desire to get _really_ away from it all. My interpretation is
that they were losers in a civil war in the Old Earth Union. Not official.

>>Remember that my theory ties TLs tightly to the economy. I know it hasn't
>>worked that way on Earth today, but it's the only explanation that I can
>>see why nearly all worlds aren't TL 15.
> 
>Doesn't different levels of `techno-economic development' explain the
>disparate TLs as well?  

That's just what I said. It's two different and independent bits of my
argument. The disparate TLs indicates a close tie to economy. Economy can
(and often does) fluctuate. Ergo TLs can fluctuate. If you postulate that 
Sword World economy dosen't fluctuate you get stable TLs. If you postulate 
that it does you get unstable TLs.

>>As to why
>>it dosen't happen in the Imperium and the Darrian Confederation:
>>      1) Maybe it does. Why is only 4 Imperial worlds in the Spinward
>>         Marches TL 15?
> 
>Because these are the only four that have achieved that level of `techno-
>ecomomic development'?

Certainly. The stable economy theory. But one set of UPPs isn't enough to
say anything one way or the other about this. Of course, we do have 
several sets of UPPs for the Sword Worlds, but since they have world
populations fluctuating by bilions within a decade I don't know that
we can really rely on them. 

>>So this seems to be the assumption that dosen't fit. Examine it. Change it
>>to fit. Specifically the part of the assumption that has the individual
>>Sword Worlds tied together in an 'emperor-level' feudal technocracy. Try
>>to imagine the tecnocracies stopping at the planetary level.
> 
>But this isn't what *you've* proposed!  If Sacnoth is selling its high-tech
>goods to all the other Sword Worlds then the technocracy can't stop at the
>individual worlds because the economy doesn't!  

Are the US and Europe and Japan different countries? Yet their economies
are tightly intertwined.

>This is the nature of a
>feudal technocracy - the poltical situation is tied directly to the economic
>situation.  

>If the economy is interstellar then political power in interstellar...

I don't see how that follows.

>...and the center of power out to be the strongest technocracy - Sacnoth.
>Unless there is outside influence like the Zhodani.  Again, quoting the *JTAS*
>Contact article:
> 
>"A Confederation Council, made up of representatives from all worlds,
>regulates interworld trade, handles diplomatic relations with outside powers,
>and adjudicates interworld disputes."
> 
> Sounds like the Japanese *keiritsu* to me.

Sounds like a slightly stronger European Union to me.

>>If, that is, wars were decided by mathematical formulae. Let's not get that
>>simplistic.
> 
>Well, fine, but I'm merely trying to provide some data for your 10-to-1
>question.

No offense meant.

>>Nowadays they _do_ have a politically stable Confederation.
> 
>Doesn't sound like it from the above quote.

Perhaps not, but it sure sound like it from the length of time the Gram
Coalition has lasted.

>>Make that overran every two centuries and you're nearer the mark. This is
>>actually quite important. If the Sword Worlds really bothered the Imperium
> 
>>Imperium has taken quite decisive action whenever the Sword Worlds have 
>>ovestepped the line. 
> 
>I merely saw `decades' as analogous to centuries when comparing a millenia-
>old empire to a two-century-old nation.  

I think that is wrong. Whatever the age of an institution, the people who
run it usualy thinks in terms of their own generation.


>I feel the Sword Worlds *have*
>been a bother and that the Imperium *hasn't* taken *decisive* action. A
>pacification campaign is decisive and consistent with past Imperial actions.

The pacification campaigns took place before even the Ante-bellum period of
the Imperium. The 3rd frontier War took place after the Civil War and the
Psionic suppressions. I find no problem with accepting that Imperial
attitudes were different in those two periods.

>>OK. So you think the Confederation is one huge Feudal Technocracy, right?
> 
>No, I think it is a bunch of planetary technocracies too.  *You* have suggested
>there is a great deal of economic integration between these economies which,
>in my understanding, calls for a broader interstellar technocracy as well.

I must have a different definition of 'intergration' than you. I think these
worlds all produce whatever is most profitable at any given time and sell it
to anyone who will buy. That's not intergration in my book.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir


------------------------------

Bundle: 614
Archive-Message-Number: 7714
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Aslan ihatei incursions
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 14:27:17 +0100 (METDST)

Roger Sanger writes:
>Subject: Is Glisten in the Regency in 1200?
>             ASLAN INVASION OF REGENCY TERRITORY
>  
>I was looking over some UWP data of the Spinward Marches
>recently, and many of the worlds I thought were part of the
>Regency (Rebellion Era) were marked as being controlled by the
>Aslan.
>  
>The data in the Imperial Encyclopedia reflects this.
>  
>One of the worlds was Glisten!
>  
>I wouldn't have expected an asteroid cluster with a population of
>9 BILLION and a tech-level of 15, a naval base, a scout base,
>major shipyards with large Imperial Naval contracts, and a
>civilization based heavily on interplanetary transportation to
>fall to any but the largest conceivable Aslan Fleet!  What
>happened?

GDW failed to consider the ramifications of what they had already established
about Aslan ihatei and made a massive mistake in an effort create one more
Rebellion faction.

>MY QUESTION IS THIS:
>       What worlds were taken over by the Aslan invasion, and then, what
>                worlds were taken back by the Regency???????


Likewise Caffine Achiever! <fok@scf.usc.edu> writes:
>Looking back at my MT map of the Spinward Marches.  Isn't all of Glisten
>subsector within the area of Aslan Conquest?  Not to mention about a quarter
>of Trin's Veil Subsector (spin-rim ward)?  Assuming the conquest area
>would narrow as it reached deeper into Imperial territory, I dare to
>assume that Pax Rulin, Gazulin, Sindal, and Tobia would've been overran as
>well.  (Also see Imperial map in Survival Margin, pg 98)
>
>[...]
>
>Also about 1/2 to 2/3 of Aramis Subsector was overrun by the Vargr
>Invasions.  I would imagine the 214th also took a beating before this was
>allowed to happen.  If the terrority was not retaken by the time of the
>New Era the 214th would probably still exist but expect it to have shiny new
>TL-16 ships and performing quite aggressive patrols along the frontiers.

And the Vargr (as originally described) are equally incapable of posing a
credible threat. 

I've presented my arguments against the seriousness of Aslan ihatei threat 
before. I'll do it again if anyone wants to dispute the matter. But for
now I'll just post a letter that I worked out to explain away most of the
inconsistencies and what happened afterwards:

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message from High Commissioner the Lord Goolanzoon, Sector Admiral, Imperial
Navy  (ret.),  Minister without portfolio of the Archduchy of Deneb,  to His
Grace Archduke Norris of Deneb using the private cypher:


Mora, 345-1118

Dear Pruneface,

Well, the "Committee to Review the recent events in the Trojan Reaches with a
view to ascertaining etc. etc."  -  in short, what went wrong and what can we
do about it?   -   has finally completed it's investigation.  No doubt you'll
eventually get a predigested resume of our findings through your tame bureau-
crats, but I thought you'd appreciate a informal overview. (And to be totally
honest, I'm too damn exited to wait for an official reaction).
    First of all,  there's  no doubt that the whole thing was shockingly mis-
managed by the Duke of Tobia and Admiral Torgeson. They seem to've lost their
so-called heads completely.  True, most of the regular units were up coreward
watching the zhos, but the astrographics of the Reach is such that any first-
year  cadet  could've  stopped  the aslan by garrisoning a few key worlds and
forming  a few  fire-fighter squadrons.  These are ihatei,  after all,  using
obsolescent  clan hand-me-downs   -   not much superior to our Reserve forces
(rather the reverse,  if anything).  Hell,  give me a half-decent spy network
and  a  good  courier system and I'd've undertaken to stop them with half the
forces the two fatheads had.
    Instead  Tobia  and  Torgeson  concentrated their forces to guard the few
worlds that were already so well protected  that no sane aslan would dream of
trying  to  muscle  in on them and sat around with their thumbs up their bums
while  our bewhiskered land-grabbing friends grabbed left,  right and center.
And  none  of  the other nobles had the gumption to do anything more than try
and protect their own little patch  (mostly with pitiful results). Personally
I think that the proper cure for what ails the local nobility is a collective
brain-transplant.  If  you  can't  find  enough donors,  a set of cheap paper
substitutes will still be an improvement!
    I know, I know.  We can't really do anything about the nobles   -   but I
can  dream,  can't I?   -   but you ought to sack the top three levels of the
Fleet,  at  least.  There's a few you'd have to kick upstairs and a couple of
exceptions, but most of the idiots deserve to be cashiered. That's the result
of the Reach being too far from any real fighting for centuries,  I guess   -
all the fools wind up down here, where they,  quote "can't do any harm",  end
quote. Ha, bloody ha! I've said it myself, may the Guiding Spirit forgive me.
    I  spoke  of  fools,  but  I'm pretty sure that there's also a few knaves
around. That shocking business with Aki - ihatei that far inside the frontier
and 30 parsec from their base, for the luffa Mike!   -   couldn't've happened
without  the conniving of somebody pretty high up.  I have a few of my bright
young  men  looking into it   -   hopefully giving the lardbutts of the local
Naval Intelligence  (hmpf!)  a few well-deserved heart attacks in the process
- -  and when we find the culprits, the bastards are going to breathe vacuum!
    Mind you, I've often wondered what made the aslans commit that particular
bit of lunacy. Imagine trying to control 10 billion locals with a few hundred
thousands.  They  had a couple of tech levels on the locals,  true,  but as I
always say,  once you can make explosives the rest is just dressing.  Anyway,
young Blackstone-Hawke - remember him?  He was one of Santanocheev's hangers-
on  and wound up in charge of the Gazulin Reserve Fleet after the shake-up  -
Well, he seems to have had a few more brain cells than we gave him credit for
(or  perhaps  being stuck in the boonies for half a decade has wised him up).
The  moment he heard about Aki he put a fleet across the aslani supply lines,
and  the  last  I  heard about it the survivors were at the peace tables with
their tail between their legs.  (Not that far between their legs though. They
have  been  raiding Glisten and a lot of other places for supplies,  and they
still control the Aki system. But I guess you know all this already).
    Anyway, there's no getting around the fact that the dam is well and truly
broken.  Apointing blame is all very well   -   it's rapidly becoming the fa-
vourite  sport  of the local nitwits   -   but the real problem is what to do
about  it.  Curiously enough according to my tame sociologists the problem is
more the locals than the aslans.  You remember the old diplomatic joke?  "You
give  us  what  we  want  or we beat the hell out of you and take it anyway"?
Well, apart from at Aki and a few other places, the aslans seems to have come
up  with a variant:  "You sell us what we want or we beat the hell out of you
and buy it anyway"! Most of them prefer to buy rather than take  -  they just
don't  take  no for an answer!  Nor would there normally be any problems with
getting  them to swear fealthy to the Imperium.  Well,  that's not altogether
true;  some of the clans are quite anti-Imperium.  But we'd have the strength
to deal with them if we could get along with the rest.
    That  would  seem to solve most of the problem,  wouldn't it?  If they're
willing to pay for what they take and to become loyal citizens, then we real-
ly should be able to work out something, right?  Alas, the locals have become
thoroughly paranoid about them and in many cases refuse to share their worlds
with  them.  They  organize their own militias and try to push the aslans off
their planets. And you know what happens when you push an aslan  -  he pushes
right back!  If something isn't done, the descendents of both sides are going
to be sniping at each others 200 years from now.
    Fortunately  we have been able to come up with a solution!  That's right,
we have an answer,  and it's so simple that you're going to kick yourself for
not thinking of it yourself.  I did when my aide earned the fastest promotion
in history with just one sentence.  Think about it. What are our two greatest
problems  today?  One is that we have all these young aslans swarming up from
rimwards, eager for land and willing to fight for it, and we can't stop them,
because most of our ships are up corewards trying to keep the damn Vargr from
devastating more planets than they already have.
    I really wish I could see your face now,  Pruney.  As my aide said:  "Why
don't we get our two problems to fight each other?" Corewards and in Corridor
there  are  scores  of planets whose populations have been decimated;  untold
acres of prime land whose legitimate owners and their heirs are dead and gone.
We  can  hire all the ihatei we can get and pay them off with that land!  And
you can bet your bottom credit that the survivors are not going to regard the
aslans as interlopers. They'll be saviours!
    Furthermore, once we have a credible offer to make, we'll be able to play
the aslan clans off against each others. You know how fragile aslan alliances
are,  Frankly I'm amazed that the present one has held so long as it has, and
it  has only done so because they could get more out of cooperating with each
other than with us.  The land the aslans can get down here rimwards is mostly
second choice.  Give them an offer of prime land and they're not going to let
the  Vargr  stand  in  the  way.  And we'll be able to favour the friendliest
clans, leaving us in a position to make the unfriendly ones toe the line.
    With the extra strength the aslan can supply  (not to metion the ships we
will be able to spare from the rim)  we should be able to clear the Domain of
Vargr.  Hell,  we  may  even be in a position to clear Corridor,  although my
aslan  experts  doubt  it.  They say that the present massive burst of ihatei
will  taper  off in a year or so,  and that it will be a long time before the
pressure builds up to the pre-Revolution level. For one thing, the ihatei has
mostly  leap-frogged over all the neutral worlds we kept between them and us,
and  it will be some time before they've "filled in the cracks".  Still,  who
knows? Perhaps enough of them will prefer Corridor to filling in cracks.
    What  I  suggest is that we keep this plan secret and try to surprise the
Vargr.  The most pressing problem is Aki and the rest of Glisten. If you will
send me a warrant,  I'll take over the negotiations and get the ball rolling.
I've  already put my staff on to planning the logistics which,  I admit,  are
going to be a headache. But worth it, I'd say!

Cheerio,
Goggles.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Having seen this letter Mike Metlay came up with the following little joke:

Q: Would you rather have a lion attack you or a wolf?
A: I'd rather he attacked the wolf...)


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of TML Biweekly
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